Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby Deathpool Dave » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:16 pm

Pomposity is an attractive trait. Claiming to be at the helm of a ship that is crashing is funny stuff
Did I crash something that I’m unaware of?

Intelligence and wealth do not vary directly.
Of course they do. How many rich stupid people do you know?

but I haven't ruined anyone else's life in my own unenlightened self-interest, either.
Neither have I. In fact, I employ a lot of people. I think their jobs actually help them...

But you're never going to understand any of this.
I know. Because I’m so stupid and you’re so smart.

You're so happy to be well-off that you've either deluded yourself into thinking that what you're doing is somehow not abominable, or you actually believed it to begin with.
I provide valuable services to happy customers, improve the healthcare delivery system, give people jobs, and pay a lot of taxes. Yeah – I can live with that. That’s my contribution – what’s yours?

Either way, humanity was better off when people like you could not cause such hardship.
Could you possibly elaborate on the hardship that I cause? I’m not aware of any.

And on that day, I just hope I find out and can contact you in time to say "I told you so."
Good luck on achieving your life’s goal…
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby Rev. Jedi highlander » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:32 am

Intelligence and wealth do not vary directly.
Of course they do. How many rich stupid people do you know?

Image
Image
Image
Image

They exist...
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby Lucky Punk » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:59 am

A self-proclaimed intellect didn't understand the point and facts in the posted article.

Bain does not go after sick companies. It seeks out companies that are profitable and takes the profits for themselves. Then they crash and burn the original company.

Bain is a spider that captures prey, sucks it dry, and leaves a shell.

Then they call themselves job creators.

And their fans tell us that this is good for what ails us and that they are what makes America great.
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby Deathpool Dave » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:56 am

They exist...
I’m talking about people that made their own money, not the offspring of celebrities and industry titans. Certainly any moron can inherit a fortune. I will acknowledge the athletes as a very rare exceptions to the rule, but I disagree about Palin. A few years ago she was the mayor of a small town in Alaska. Today she is the de facto CEO of a multimillion dollar, multimedia empire. Whatever you may think of her, and I wouldn’t vote for her for anything, but she’s not stupid…

A self-proclaimed intellect didn't understand the point and facts in the posted article
For the record, I’m not a self-proclaimed anything. That's your word, not mine. But here’s where our opinions differ: You are accepting the validity of the article on its merits, while I recognize it as complete bullshit because I live in this world to an extent. To me, it appears to be written by an angry liberal who has not worked in the field and seems to possess little understanding of how it actually works. It is completely subjective and uses no quantitative or objective measurements to support its thesis. It states “This is what they do and how they do it,” and then uses nothing more than interviews with other undereducated uninformed angry people as its sole source of “information.” Here’s what you won’t see: “Company A had net margins of 20%, which were industry average. Then Bain took them over and destroyed it.” You won’t see that because it doesn’t exist. You won’t see income statements, balance sheets, cash flow trending, or any other objective measurement. Just some pissed off worker saying “we were doing great” while having no fucking clue what he’s talking about. In short, this is just the angry ramblings of an uninformed idiot, and you should be more skeptical of his theories. Bain and the others in that industry take companies that suck, invest money and management in them, turn them around when possible, save them from going under which saves jobs, and grow them larger which creates new jobs. These companies are under no obligation to deal with Bain. If the companies were doing great they would tell the investment bankers to go pound sand. They let them in because they’ll die without them. That’s the way the game is played – this author has absolutely no clue what he’s talking about.
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby Lucky Punk » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:07 am

Hey DP

You left out Romney as being one of those that inherited a fortune.
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby Deathpool Dave » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:19 am

You left out Romney as being one of those that inherited a fortune
Indeed. And promptly donated all of it.
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby Boomshadow » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:42 am

Deathpool Dave wrote:I’m talking about people that made their own money, not the offspring of celebrities and industry titans. Certainly any moron can inherit a fortune.


Keep moving those goalposts, DP.

Nonetheless, here's a list I've compiled:

  • Bob "New Delhi" Nardelli: CEO of Home Depot from December 2000 to June 2007. Stock during his tenure remained essentially flat while competitor Lowe's doubled in value. Named by CNBC as one of the worst CEOs of all time. (I don't blame him for his two years at Chrysler. That had to have been like replacing Capt. Smith at the helm of Titanic after it scraped the iceberg.) Total compensation at Home Depot before Golden Parachute: $240 million, which makes him wealthy by most modern standards.
  • Michael Eisner: Former Paramount CEO. CEO of the Walt Disney Company from 1984 to March 13, 2005. Scored early successes in revitalizing the animation division, but then fumbled away Jeff Katzenberg, who then co-founded DreamWorks SKG with Steven Spielberg and David Geffen, which has become a major Disney competitor even after (perhaps because of) its acquisition by Universal. Nearly lost Pixar because of ongoing conflict with Steve Jobs (rumor persists that Eisner's departure was a major requirement for Disney to be allowed to purchase the animator, even after almost a decade of hits that the two put out together). Shut down Disney Animation's Florida division right after it released the very profitable Lilo and Stitch. Acquired also-ran search portal Go.com and proceeded to lose millions on it. Acquired ABC and ESPN as part of the Capitol Cities merger; thankfully profits at ESPN largely offset losses at ABC, blamed then and now on Eisner's micromanaging style.
  • Donald Trump: No. Too easy.
  • Mel Gibson: Once one of the most sought-after and highly-paid actors in Hollywood. Not so much after repeatedly carpetbombing his public image.
  • Carly Fiorina, followed closely by Mark Hurd: Honestly, I'm not sure if we should blame them, or the boards of HP and Compaq who approved the merger, but now instead of two marginally successful PC merchants, we have one failing one. Fiorina's bumbling brought the former giant to its knees in the consumer market; Hurd nearly rebuilt the company, but was forced out due to sexual harassment claims and a claim that he spied on his accuser.
  • RIM CEO Mike Lazaridis, who joins however many CEOs RIM has had in the past four years in not just having RIM's lunch eaten by Apple, Samsung, and HTC, but actually catering.
  • Lindsay Lohan, who was on track to cash in big on a string of hits as she parlayed a modicum of talent as a teenager into more grown-up roles, but has since gone so far off the rails that she can't even find them.
  • Charlie Sheen, who was stacking huge piles of cash as one (or a half) of Two and a Half Men and proceeded to turn himself into a punchline.
  • Ben Stein, who parlayed his speechwriting for Richard Nixon into an acting, commentating, and hosting career, but then shot himself in the foot by not reading his New York Times contract closely enough (guess that would have caused eye problems that Clear Eyes couldn't fix). Also made a godawful movie about teaching religion in schools.
  • Alicia Silverstone, who regurgitates into her children's mouths.
  • Jennifer McCarthy, who persists in a deeply stupid and potentially hazardous campaign against life-saving vaccinations.
  • Jim Carrey, whose career flounders as he chases Ms. McCarthy around defending her. (Remember, this guy at one time had married Lauren Holly.)
  • Megan Fox, who can't get hired after comparing Transformers wrecker Michael Bay to Hitler. That's totally unfair. Hitler had a script.
  • Aaaaaand Mitt Romney, who made tons of money putting thousands of Americans out of work, and is now spending lots and lots of other people's money getting the message out that he has no message, but at least he's not the incumbent. Remember how well that worked for John Kerry?

Deathpool Dave wrote:...because I live in this world to an extent.


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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby Deathpool Dave » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:30 am

So Boom, if I understand your analogy correctly, you named a number of extremely successful business people and entertainers, all of whom have figured out how to generate large incomes, while you dwell in poverty blaming everyone except yourself, but they’re dumb and you're smart? Got it…
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby hurryupndiealready » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:06 am

I'm still waiting for the counter-article which exposes the errors and/or outright falsehoods in the original article. I mean, if it's as patently false as Some Here claim then the counter should be out any day now citing the financials which show how Bain's targets were in imminent danger of complete collapse despite working three shifts and generating ever-increasing revenues and how the ledger-flip to hundreds of millions in debt and loss/expatriation of thousands of jobs Saved Them and was Good For America.

Yep, any day now ...

Hello?

<crickets>

Uh huh.
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby Rev. Jedi highlander » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:30 am

Personally, I believe that the nomination of Mitt Romney was simply the Republican Party's way of saying "Fuck it, let's work on 2016".
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby Deathpool Dave » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:40 pm

I'm still waiting for the counter-article which exposes the errors and/or outright falsehoods in the original article. I mean, if it's as patently false as Some Here claim then the counter should be out any day now citing the financials which show how Bain's targets were in imminent danger of complete collapse despite working three shifts and generating ever-increasing revenues and how the ledger-flip to hundreds of millions in debt and loss/expatriation of thousands of jobs Saved Them and was Good For America.

Yep, any day now ...

Hello?

<crickets>

Uh huh
That's like responding to Holocaust or moon landing deniers - why bother? One lends importance to that which one pays attention to. That which is ignored is marginalized into insignificance. Why pay attention to the unsupported and confused ramblings of a liberal idiot?
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby carleneda5dollahho » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:16 pm

Deathpool Dave wrote:
I'm still waiting for the counter-article which exposes the errors and/or outright falsehoods in the original article. I mean, if it's as patently false as Some Here claim then the counter should be out any day now citing the financials which show how Bain's targets were in imminent danger of complete collapse despite working three shifts and generating ever-increasing revenues and how the ledger-flip to hundreds of millions in debt and loss/expatriation of thousands of jobs Saved Them and was Good For America.

Yep, any day now ...

Hello?

<crickets>

Uh huh
That's like responding to Holocaust or moon landing deniers - why bother? One lends importance to that which one pays attention to. That which is ignored is marginalized into insignificance. Why pay attention to the unsupported and confused ramblings of a liberal idiot?


Ya got nuttin', huh?

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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby Boomshadow » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:20 pm

Deathpool Dave wrote:
I'm still waiting for the counter-article which exposes the errors and/or outright falsehoods in the original article. I mean, if it's as patently false as Some Here claim then the counter should be out any day now citing the financials which show how Bain's targets were in imminent danger of complete collapse despite working three shifts and generating ever-increasing revenues and how the ledger-flip to hundreds of millions in debt and loss/expatriation of thousands of jobs Saved Them and was Good For America.

Yep, any day now ...

Hello?

<crickets>

Uh huh
That's like responding to Holocaust or moon landing deniers - why bother? One lends importance to that which one pays attention to. That which is ignored is marginalized into insignificance. Why pay attention to the unsupported and confused ramblings of a liberal idiot?


Well, thanks for spending hundreds of words validating our side of the argument over the past several days, then. Much appreciated.
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby Deathpool Dave » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:32 pm

Ya got nuttin', huh?
Thought I explained it rather clearly – not sure where I’m losing you. And I’m not sure if I could find an article written by another uneducated ill-informed author that used subjective opinions that solely depend upon interviews with other uneducated and ill-informed subjects and fail to cite anything quantifiable or objective to counter the opinions offered in that article, but if I do I’ll be sure and post it. In the mean time, pull the finances (you know, those things that you can count) of AMC Entertainment, Aspen Education Group, Brookstone, Burger King, Burlington Coat Factory, Clear Channel Communications, Domino's Pizza, DoubleClick, Dunkin' Donuts, D&M Holdings, Guitar Center, Hospital Corporation of America (HCA), Sealy, The Sports Authority, Staples, Toys R Us, Warner Music Group and The Weather Channel and see how many people work there and how much tax they pay into the system. Because that is not subjective; that is not my opinion. Professionals actually measure things.

Oh - and speaking of objective measurements:
• Highest monthly debt ever recorded in US history: $229 billion, February 2012, Obama’s 4th year in office. (March might have been higher - I didn't see that number yet)
• Current level of government borrowing: 42 cents of every dollar spent, highest in recorded history.
• Number of consecutive months that we have spent more than we took in: 41.
• Previous record: 11 months
• Obama’s 2012 budget: Over $1 trillion deficits every year through 2020.
• Debt-to-GDP: >100% for the second time in history (the first was during WWII).
• Number of Americans working on 1/20/2009: 133.6 million. March 2012: 132.7 (Bureau of Labor Statistics).
• Unemployment 1/20/2009: 7.6%. April 2012: 8.3%
• None of that is my opinion…I don't have a personal problem with the guy. By any objective measurement he is an abject failure. And I fire people that fail.

Well, thanks for spending hundreds of words validating our side of the argument over the past several days, then. Much appreciated.
I suppose investment banking can be confusing to the uneducated, but there’s only so much I can do to educate you Boom. Now get back to it – those dishes aren’t going to wash themselves…
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby Lucky Punk » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:21 am

Those that disagree with DP are uneducated and biased. And s till there is no disputing that Bain preferred going after companies with money, takilng that money and then crashing the company.

There is no money to be gained dissolving dead companies, at least nothing compared to strip mining the live ones.

Back to basics.

How did Bain create jobs at companies they dismantled. Jobs for Bain do not count.

DP used to claim that if you conducted prtsonal attacks you were losing the argument. Ah, the good old days.
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby But Is It Art » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:42 am

Lucky Punk wrote:
But Is It Art wrote:I see two questions at work here. One is whether the ability to make money for investors without regard for the consequences to everybody else is a noble trait. The other is whether it's a presidential trait.

Unless you are being sarcastic, what could be noble about your first question?


A social Darwinist might consider it noble. (Got any here?) But the first question is admittedly set up more as a "for the sake of argument" for the second.
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby Deathpool Dave » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:30 am

Those that disagree with DP are uneducated and biased.
Of course not, at least not solely for that reason.

And still there is no disputing that Bain preferred going after companies with money, taking that money and then crashing the company.
Yes, there absolutely is.

I’ll make my point one last time, and then we can just agree to disagree…
• Examine the publication: It’s not CNN, The Wall Street Journal, the BBC, or any source with credibility - it is The Village Voice, a one-sided liberal tabloid with no journalistic standards or integrity. There is a reason you won’t find this story in a credible publication.
• Examine the sources of information: It is primarily the author, who has no experience or expertise working in the field he is writing about.
• Examine his sources: Interviews with people that lost their jobs without any counter opinions from the other side or from people actually in a position to know something.
• Examine what’s missing: There are no reports of how the companies were actually doing – no income statements, balance sheets, margins, etc. – no numbers, just interviews with people that are not in a position to know the answers.
• Examine the questions not posed: Why did these companies do business with Bain? Bain can’t just walk in and say “Hey – I’m taking over.” They have to be invited, they have to be sought. How did Bain come to be there in the first place?

Despite this, you are accepting his conclusions as fact without any semblance of skepticism, and you should know better than that. This is the equivalent of some moron writing that Obama is a dog eating Muslim from Kenya. Not everything on the internet is true, you know…

I work in this field, what he wrote conflicts with everything that I have learned about it over many years, he has no credibility in his background or methods, and so I’m calling it bullshit.

How did Bain create jobs at companies they dismantled. Jobs for Bain do not count.
By saving companies that otherwise would have gone under, and then growing those companies. They don’t “dismantle” companies – that defeats the entire business model, which is to find underperforming companies, invest in them, grow the equity, and then sell them at profit.

DP used to claim that if you conducted prtsonal attacks you were losing the argument. Ah, the good old days
Not completely sure what you are referring to. My comments were aimed at the author and his “sources,” and stating that someone is unqualified to offer an opinion and absent journalistic standards is less a personal attack than a legitimate observation.
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby lindbergh » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:12 pm

Deathpool Dave wrote:
You left out Romney as being one of those that inherited a fortune
Indeed. And promptly donated all of it.


To Mormons.
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby Lucky Punk » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:39 pm

Deathpool Dave wrote:
Those that disagree with DP are uneducated and biased.
Of course not, at least not solely for that reason.

And still there is no disputing that Bain preferred going after companies with money, taking that money and then crashing the company.
Yes, there absolutely is.

I’ll make my point one last time, and then we can just agree to disagree…
• Examine the publication: It’s not CNN, The Wall Street Journal, the BBC, or any source with credibility - it is The Village Voice, a one-sided liberal tabloid with no journalistic standards or integrity. There is a reason you won’t find this story in a credible publication.
• Examine the sources of information: It is primarily the author, who has no experience or expertise working in the field he is writing about.
• Examine his sources: Interviews with people that lost their jobs without any counter opinions from the other side or from people actually in a position to know something.
• Examine what’s missing: There are no reports of how the companies were actually doing – no income statements, balance sheets, margins, etc. – no numbers, just interviews with people that are not in a position to know the answers.
• Examine the questions not posed: Why did these companies do business with Bain? Bain can’t just walk in and say “Hey – I’m taking over.” They have to be invited, they have to be sought. How did Bain come to be there in the first place?

Despite this, you are accepting his conclusions as fact without any semblance of skepticism, and you should know better than that. This is the equivalent of some moron writing that Obama is a dog eating Muslim from Kenya. Not everything on the internet is true, you know…

I work in this field, what he wrote conflicts with everything that I have learned about it over many years, he has no credibility in his background or methods, and so I’m calling it bullshit.

How did Bain create jobs at companies they dismantled. Jobs for Bain do not count.
By saving companies that otherwise would have gone under, and then growing those companies. They don’t “dismantle” companies – that defeats the entire business model, which is to find underperforming companies, invest in them, grow the equity, and then sell them at profit.

DP used to claim that if you conducted prtsonal attacks you were losing the argument. Ah, the good old days
Not completely sure what you are referring to. My comments were aimed at the author and his “sources,” and stating that someone is unqualified to offer an opinion and absent journalistic standards is less a personal attack than a legitimate observation.



The personal attacks I was referring to were towards Boom.

If the Voice is not a valid source because they are left-wing, can I then conclude that Fox News and The Wall Street Journal are not valid sources because they are right-wing?

What source is without bias? Who is a valid source?
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby lindbergh » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:29 pm

Lucky Punk wrote:
If the Voice is not a valid source because they are left-wing, can I then conclude that Fox News and The Wall Street Journal are not valid sources because they are right-wing?

What source is without bias? Who is a valid source?


No. It only works the other way. Right wingers are always correct, and if it looks like they're losing an argument, they will shout louder. Remember that and you & DPD will get along fine.

(I know this wasn't your point but I think for if you want relatively un-spun US news try the Guardian.uk and BBC World News).
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby Lucky Punk » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:44 am

lindbergh wrote:
Lucky Punk wrote:
If the Voice is not a valid source because they are left-wing, can I then conclude that Fox News and The Wall Street Journal are not valid sources because they are right-wing?

What source is without bias? Who is a valid source?


No. It only works the other way. Right wingers are always correct, and if it looks like they're losing an argument, they will shout louder. Remember that and you & DPD will get along fine.

(I know this wasn't your point but I think for if you want relatively un-spun US news try the Guardian.uk and BBC World News).

I listen to BBC News for an hour from Monday to Friday. I read the Guardian a couple of times a month.
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby hurryupndiealready » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:03 am

... still waitin' on one of the executives of a Bain-"rescued" company to write the rebuttal article ...
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby Deathpool Dave » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:51 pm

To Mormons
Yes. Something about a school I think.

The personal attacks I was referring to were towards Boom.
He always starts it – I just give it back to him. But it’s just something we do. I like Boom – he’s good people.

If the Voice is not a valid source because they are left-wing, can I then conclude that Fox News and The Wall Street Journal are not valid sources because they are right-wing?
Fox for sure. Not the Journal though. You think they’re right wing? I think they call it straight and have excellent reporting.

What source is without bias? Who is a valid source?
It’s a matter of degree and acceptability. The Village Voice is about a hundred times further to the left than FNC is to the right, and I wouldn’t consider FNC to be unbiased. The BBC, CNN, Reuters, ABC News, The AP, USA Today, most of the network news organizations with the possible exception of NBC are solid. Most of the city newspapers are good. In essence, there are credible news organizations that occasionally offer editorials, and then there are biased rags. The VV is a rag, and that story lacked even a semblance of credibility for all the reasons I pointed out.

No. It only works the other way. Right wingers are always correct, and if it looks like they're losing an argument, they will shout louder. Remember that and you & DPD will get along fine
How does one shout on a message board? My points were objective and credible, as any debate should be. If you disagree, make objective and credible counter arguments. And LP and I get along just fine.

still waitin' on one of the executives of a Bain-"rescued" company to write the rebuttal article
Are you also waiting for NASA to respond to reports of the faked moon landing?

What I find most interesting is that people make the wrong points. There are a few really good, really solid arguments against Romney, but no one makes them; and they quote nonsense like this article instead...
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby Lucky Punk » Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:58 am

A Rupert Murdoch owned newspaper is being held up as a bastion of non-bias. Considering what we have learned about Murdoch over the last few years and some of his other publications, I find the conclusion to be a joke.

The Village Voice has had far less problems with scandal and the printing of lies than various parts of the Murdoch Empire.

Here in NY, the Voice has exposed many local scandals and has also gone after left-wing scandals. The next time a Fox affiliate goes after the Republicans someone should let me know about it.
The American city, ?, is a primary (first or highest in rank or importance) target of terrorism.
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Re: Yes, he is quite a businessman (political)

Postby Rev. Jedi highlander » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:55 am

The only reliable news source is The Onion.
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